The best Wind Turbine product.

deputc26 · #1 10-05-2009, 09:08 PM

I am thinking about purchasing one or more wind turbines for an associates business, can anyone here compile a list of the best available turbines from a watts/dollar perspective? Other factors such as installation expenses/fees etc. would be nice to know as well as I understand there is more to it than strictly watts/dollar.

The limit on size is that it must be transportable by standard shipping methods.

I could make this list myself but someone who knows the industry well sure could do it a lot quicker.

thanks,

_Nate

myocardia · #2 10-06-2009, 12:45 AM

We need to know a few things before your questions can be answered, Nate. What's the average windspeed at your associate's proposed site, and how much money is he planning on spending on turbines? That said, DIY turbines are always the cost/watt leader, in every category. Have you seen this thread?

deputc26 · #3 10-06-2009, 01:16 AM

Yep I checked out that thread, I personally loved the DIY page of Mikes and read the whole thing and then read the DIY solar panel and jet engine pages as well, the average wind speed is, I believe, 7mph. The idea, however, is to possibly sell them in the bricks part of a bricks and clicks business and have them running with real-time data displayed in the store, most potential customers would not consider DIY solutions. I told my friend I'd look into it for him since I loosely follow the industry anyway. It's all really preliminary right now with actual deployment probably a long way out.

thanks for the response,

_Nate

myocardia · #4 10-06-2009, 02:31 PM

Well, tell your friend he needs to decide a few things first. What size turbines is he going to carry, for instance? These 'small' turbines come in sizes from 200 watts to 10,000 watts, and everything in between. Also, if his customers aren't the install it themselves type and he knows nothing about any of this, who will be doing their installations?

As far as what should he have installed on the roof of his business to attract customers' attention, I would definitely go with 3 or 4 different small VAWT's, which stands for vertical axis wind turbine, along with one or two small HAWT's, which stands for horizontal axis wind turbine. Why different ones? Well, because everyone's first question is always "How much does this cost?"

But their second question is nearly always "How does this compare to" the one they've already heard about, which is nearly always a Southwest Windpower HAWT (usually the 400 watt version that sells for ~$700) or the $5,000 Windspire VAWT. He will want to wait until he is ready to buy the turbines before choosing which turbines to buy. The reasoning is that the best turbine to buy today, in watts per dollar, will be #5 or #6 in 6-12 months, when it's time to make the purchases. Wind power is a brand new industry, and like all new industries, it is constantly evolving in fairly large leaps and bounds.

BTW, were you aware that a 7 MPH average annual wind speed makes your city a pretty low performer in average wind speeds? Where I live has roughly 50% more wind than where you live, and T Boone Pickens never even considered us for a wind farm, since we only get ~1/3 as much wind as the area he ended up choosing. Below is the wind data for the town where I live.

deputc26 · #5 10-09-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myocardia

Well, tell your friend he needs to decide a few things first. What size turbines is he going to carry, for instance? These 'small' turbines come in sizes from 200 watts to 10,000 watts, and everything in between. Also, if his customers aren't the install it themselves type and he knows nothing about any of this, who will be doing their installations?

As far as what should he have installed on the roof of his business to attract customers' attention, I would definitely go with 3 or 4 different small VAWT's, which stands for vertical axis wind turbine, along with one or two small HAWT's, which stands for horizontal axis wind turbine. Why different ones? Well, because everyone's first question is always "How much does this cost?"

But their second question is nearly always "How does this compare to" the one they've already heard about, which is nearly always a Southwest Windpower HAWT (usually the 400 watt version that sells for ~$700) or the $5,000 Windspire VAWT. He will want to wait until he is ready to buy the turbines before choosing which turbines to buy. The reasoning is that the best turbine to buy today, in watts per dollar, will be #5 or #6 in 6-12 months, when it's time to make the purchases. Wind power is a brand new industry, and like all new industries, it is constantly evolving in fairly large leaps and bounds.

BTW, were you aware that a 7 MPH average annual wind speed makes your city a pretty low performer in average wind speeds? Where I live has roughly 50% more wind than where you live, and T Boone Pickens never even considered us for a wind farm, since we only get ~1/3 as much wind as the area he ended up choosing. Below is the wind data for the town where I live.

thanks, that is good data. Where did you get that graph of windspeed vs. time of year? Is that something particular to your area or could such a graph be easily obtained for any area. I could construct such a graph with aviation weather archives but it would be hugely time consuming.

Also wondering whether HAWTs routinely outperform VAWTs, it seems they have a serious advantage to me.

myocardia · #6 10-09-2009, 01:08 PM

I borrowed the graph from this webpage which is about the town that I live in. I'm not sure if there are some like it for other towns/cities, but I would guess that there are. Whether or not they are graphed like that, I have no idea. To find out about your town's wind speed, just type "your area code average wind speed" into your favorite search engine.

As far as which is more efficient when mounted on a small business or house roof, that honor goes to vertical turbines. Horizontal turbines are very effected by turbulence, which is the main reason why the manufacturers all recommend mounting them so high above the ground, and always on poles or masts. Since turbulence comes mostly from buildings, mounting them to a building would obviously not work out well. HAWT's also are built to spin at much higher RPM's than VAWT's, making mounting them to your house a bad idea, since the sound will be transmitted throughout the structure.

edit: Here is the homepage of the site that I linked at the top of this post, in reference to my town. I'm sure wherever you happen to live has a page at that site, and if not, a larger town that's nearby would be listed.

deputc26 · #7 10-15-2009, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myocardia

I borrowed the graph from this webpage which is about the town that I live in. I'm not sure if there are some like it for other towns/cities, but I would guess that there are. Whether or not they are graphed like that, I have no idea. To find out about your town's wind speed, just type "your area code average wind speed" into your favorite search engine.

As far as which is more efficient when mounted on a small business or house roof, that honor goes to vertical turbines. Horizontal turbines are very effected by turbulence, which is the main reason why the manufacturers all recommend mounting them so high above the ground, and always on poles or masts. Since turbulence comes mostly from buildings, mounting them to a building would obviously not work out well. HAWT's also are built to spin at much higher RPM's than VAWT's, making mounting them to your house a bad idea, since the sound will be transmitted throughout the structure.

edit: Here is the homepage of the site that I linked at the top of this post, in reference to my town. I'm sure wherever you happen to live has a page at that site, and if not, a larger town that's nearby would be listed.

If VAWTs are more efficient then why do I see nothing but HAWTs when I look around? (physically and virtually via the web) do you have data on the relative efficiency of the two systems? Not trying to be argumentative here your opinion just seems to (weekly) conflict with what I've observed.

Also mechanical turbulence extends to 2,000-3,000 feet AGL, I believe that turbines are elevated to avoid directional shear as you really can't escape the turbulence.

myocardia · #8 10-16-2009, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deputc26

If VAWTs are more efficient then why do I see nothing but HAWTs when I look around? (physically and virtually via the web) do you have data on the relative efficiency of the two systems? Not trying to be argumentative here your opinion just seems to (weekly) conflict with what I've observed.

You have obviously misunderstood my last post. Let me rephrase it for you: an HAWT is the more efficient wind turbine, when mounted atop a pole or mast, 30-100 feet high, hundreds of feet from the nearest building/structure. A VAWT is the more efficient turbine when mounted atop a house or other one or two-story building.

Quote:

Also mechanical turbulence extends to 2,000-3,000 feet AGL, I believe that turbines are elevated to avoid directional shear as you really can't escape the turbulence.

I believe you should look up the definition of directional shear. It has absolutely nothing to do with the turbulence to which I was referring.

deputc26 · #9 10-16-2009, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myocardia

You have obviously misunderstood my last post. Let me rephrase it for you: an HAWT is the more efficient wind turbine, when mounted atop a pole or mast, 30-100 feet high, hundreds of feet from the nearest building/structure. A VAWT is the more efficient turbine when mounted atop a house or other one or two-story building.

Ahh, I see

Quote:

Originally Posted by myocardia

I believe you should look up the definition of directional shear. It has absolutely nothing to do with the turbulence to which I was referring.

I am speaking from a meteorological perspective (I minored in wx) slanted a little by experience in aviation. Windshear produces turbulence and the conditions that produce turbulence tend to produce directional wind shear. directional windshear can be a change in direction with altitude or a change in direction with horizontal position. When I used the term "directional shear" in the earlier post it was just the best term I could think of to describe the effects that I imagined would be having a negative affect on the HAWT, mainly I envisioned rapid changes in direction causing it to constantly swing back and forth to face into the wind. I am guessing that my wx knowledge is not directly applicable to the business of finding a good spot for a HAWT or VAWT, the same terms seem to mean slightly different things.

myocardia · #10 10-16-2009, 09:37 PM

Ahhh, I understand now. You and I are just at different levels of learning/understanding concerning the atmosphere. Well, just to let you know, nearly everyone without a degree in meteorology calls what we are talking about "turbulence", although I'm sure that isn't the proper meteorological term for the phenomenon. Oh yeah, did the city-data.com page have anything concerning the average wind speed in your city/town?