Hydrogen Fuel Cells- Can they work

[greencat]

Yes they can work and work very well.

Liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen are combined as propulsion fuel for the space shuttle (and other rockets). On board, fuel cells using hydrogen and oxygen provide most of the shuttle's electric power.

[greencat]

Tomorrow, hydrogen's use as a fuel for fuel cells will grow dramatically-for transportation, stationary and portable applications. (PlugPower 5-kW fuel cell (large cell), H2ECOnomy 25-W fuel cell (small silver cell), and Avista Labs 30-W fuel cell).

[TerrontheSnake]

Yeah greencat, I have made my own fuel cell and it is really not very hard. The material for the electrodes is a lil spendy but other than that it just takes basic mechanical knowledge and a good set of instructions.

[roachhill]

The problem with hydrogen is there isn't any. You have to take it from water or other source and that requires energy. In the end hydrogen isn't any energy source just an energy storage system. I'm not against it I think its a good way to turn wind and solar power to fuel a car it's just important not to fool ourselves into thinking it's an energy source.

[greencat]

Originally Posted by roachhill

The problem with hydrogen is there isn't any. You have to take it from water or other source and that requires energy. In the end hydrogen isn't any energy source just an energy storage system. I'm not against it I think its a good way to turn wind and solar power to fuel a car it's just important not to fool ourselves into thinking it's an energy source.

I disagree, Hydrogen is an energy source. And the most abundent gas on earth. Henery Ford experimented with hydrogen but gas became cheaper and we all know the rest of the story.

[roachhill]

What I mean is Hydrogen always wants to bond to another element such as H2O to use the hydrogen you must first brake that bond and braking bonds requires energy. Most people get there hydrogen from water but that requires electricity more energy is required to brake the bonds than you recapture when you use the hydrogen (for whatever purpose). If you use solar or wind to make the hydrogen your converting energy to another form to store, transport, or use in a different way but you still just converted not created energy. Unless you know of a source of free (unbonded) hydrogen it's only a part of the answer.
p.s. I used the term created energy as it's common terminology I am aware energy is nether created nor destroyed it just changes form.

[roachhill]

I don't mean to sound argumentative in fact I would be very interested in information on how to build equipment to free hydrogen and use the resulting fuel.

[lilypotter]

Fuel cells break apart a molecule of hydrogen into electrons & protons:
Two plates are connected by a wire with an electrolyte sandwiched in between. Hydrogen is supplied to one plate, and oxygen to the other. The two elements are attracted to one another and try to bond, but only the proton of the hydrogen atom can pass through the membrane in the sandwich, so the accompanying electron of this proton has to go around the membrane, and passes through a coil to create electricity. The hydrogen proton and electron reunite with oxygen on the other side of the membrane, creating water and a small amount of heat.
Fuel cells combine the best of batteries and internal combustion engines.

They are far more energy-efficient than gasoline-fueled vehicles with double the efficiency of internal combustion engines, and are far less polluting.

They have a simple construction, so mass production costs would become extremely low.

There has been a 10-fold increase in the power density of fuel-cell stacks and a 10-fold decrease in their cost within the past 5 years.

[myocardia]

Originally Posted by lilypotter

They are far more energy-efficient than gasoline-fueled vehicles with double the efficiency of internal combustion engines, and are far less polluting.

They have a simple construction, so mass production costs would become extremely low.

There has been a 10-fold increase in the power density of fuel-cell stacks and a 10-fold decrease in their cost within the past 5 years.

The problem with hydrogen as an energy storage device (now, not in the future) is that acquiring the hydrogen requires much more energy than can ever be retrieved from that same hydrogen. The result is a net energy loss (of usable energy), when hydrogen is involved.

Once science catches up to hydrogen, when it's no longer a net energy loser, hydrogen as a fuel/energy storage device will take off. For now, there's a very good reason that the oil and electricity producing companies are the biggest proponents of hydrogen.

edit: Forgot a link, backing up my claim that separating (freeing) the hydrogen uses more energy than the hydrogen is able to provide.

[alaina]

Hi,
A fuel cell is a device that converts the chemical energy from a fuel into electricity through a chemical reaction with oxygen or another oxidizing agent[1] . Hydrogen is the most common fuel, but hydrocarbons such as natural gas and alcohols like methanol are sometimes used. Fuel cells are different from batteries in that they require a constant source of fuel and oxygen to run, but they can produce electricity continually for as long as these inputs are supplied. They are very useful and work well.
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